WELLTHY Generation Podcast!

60. Ayurveda Explained: Eczema, PCOS, and Wholesome Healing with Veronica Paige

• Naihomy Jerez • Episode 60

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Unearth the secrets of a centuries-old holistic practice with our special guest, Veronica Paige, a skilled Ayurvedic health and life coach. Together, we explore the ancient Indian system of Ayurveda, revealing how it transcends the limitations of Western medicine by embracing the whole person—mind, body, and environment. Veronica shares her personal journey and expertise, offering listeners a rich understanding of how this profound approach can lead to a healthier, more balanced life. We talk about the intricate dance between body sensations and somatic inquiry, empowering listeners to tune into their body’s wisdom and break free from unwholesome patterns.

Embark on a journey of emotional healing as we address the delicate subject of numbness and past trauma. Veronica offers enlightening strategies for reconnecting with our bodies and expanding our capacity for joy. Her insights into healing eczema through Ayurveda unfold into an exploration of the deep emotional and psychological layers tied to physical symptoms. This episode is not just about overcoming ailments; it's about embracing a holistic lifestyle that acknowledges the interconnectedness of our mental, emotional, and physical well-being.

As the holiday season approaches, we tackle the art of navigating familial expectations and the familiar trap of people-pleasing. Veronica provides practical tools for maintaining authenticity and emotional balance in the face of change.  With the promise of personal growth and renewed wellness, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom, ready to inspire transformation in both heart and mind.

Connect with Veronica
Instagram: @veronicapaige_g
YouTube: @veronicapaige_g 
Free 30 min drop-in & discover call to see if a holistic medicine is right for you

Thank you so much for listening!


Speaker 1:

Hi friends, welcome back to Wealthy Generation Podcast. I am really excited because this is another guest episode and the guest that is on today is very near and dear to my heart, because we started, I believe, our health coaching practices around the same time. We were in school together for one of our certifications and we kept each other a lot of company during the pandemic. So, veronica, I am so excited to have you here. Please introduce yourself to everybody. Oh, my goodness, hi Naomi, naomi, it's such an to have you here, please introduce yourself to everybody.

Speaker 2:

Oh my goodness, Hi, Naomi, it's such an honor to be here. I remember when I first met you during COVID right, Virtually, I say met when we haven't met in person yet, but I can experience like a hug with you Really. I remember when we first met virtually and and your name was Naomi, I was looking, I was like, oh what, what is Naomi up to over there? There's this person I want to get to know and since then it's just been so beautiful to watch you blossom and it motivates me to allow myself to keep growing. So yeah, my name is Veronica Veronica Page and I'm an Ayurvedic health and digest life coach, and with that there's the background of integrative nutrition, of course, and also somatic inquiry, specifically somatic relational trauma inquiry. So we'll get into all of that, but I'm just really grateful to be here with you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you for being here with me. So I think you've said a lot of things that we're going to get to learn about. And, like I was telling you before, I always love when you explain, because there are different modalities in holistic wellness and healing and just ancestral healing. That happens, and right, and Ayurveda I think you're pronouncing it different from me, but I don't really know quite how to do that. And then somatic inquiry right? Please explain to us what that means. What is Ayurveda?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, beautiful. So Ayurveda if this is a whole new word for you, it makes sense because it's Sanskrit term and this is coming from India. So this is an Indian based medicine and it's the oldest written documented proof of a holistic medical system, a medical healthcare system in general. This is the longest time tested practice of medicine, and Ayurveda is different in many ways from the systems that we use in the West because it's based on holism, and what that means is that we cannot reduce a sign, a symptom, a disease to one treatment or to one end situation or even goal. Rather, we have to look at the person for the entirety of who they are, where they've been, where their ancestors have been, where they're living, where they were living last month, what about three months ago? Where do they want to go? All of that is taken into account into a medical system.

Speaker 2:

So if we break down this Sanskrit term and forgive me if anyone is listening and who's a Sanskrit scholar, I also am still learning, for sure, but ayur, so A-Y-U-R, ayur, it means life, like that which means life, veda is knowledge. So if we put together Ayurveda, that which means life, and knowledge, we come to the knowledge of how to live a life, and that doesn't just mean how to live a healthy life, but Ayurveda is also going to tell us what happens when we make choices that are unwholesome. So it'll give us oh, this is the best possible outcome for you, based on holism, and if we stray away from that path for too long, we'll also get to an unwholesome and, at the end of the day, a frank disease, right? So it gives us this whole picture. That's what Ayurveda is. Uh, does that make sense so far?

Speaker 1:

it does make sense. I'm curious to learn more about what does it look like? Like a tangible example almost, of somebody being in this wholesome state and when you were not.

Speaker 2:

Just pausing for a moment because my dog just came in in this.

Speaker 1:

Oh, don't worry.

Speaker 2:

My kids are home too.

Speaker 1:

So I'm like, oh my God, are they going to start fighting any second this?

Speaker 2:

is life, this is life.

Speaker 1:

Let your dog be Right okay, so good.

Speaker 2:

This is one thing that's great about. About us is like I've I've been like in your life, even though we haven't been able to hold each other and same thing with you, and yeah um, so this is a.

Speaker 2:

This is a really great question how do we distinguish a wholesome, healthy life from a an unwholesome and, frankly, diseased lifestyle? And that actually is a huge distinction between Ayurveda and the Western medical system. The Western medical system is reductionist. It's based on okay, you have a cough, you have asthma. That means we need to do this and take this medicine, period, end of story. So that's a reductionist approach. So we're treating the symptoms based on what you're coming in for, what you're able to explain. Ayurveda has a framework to diagnose. I'm going to say this because I'm not a doctor, so I'm not giving medical advice.

Speaker 1:

She's doing diagnose in air quotes.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, but there are Ayurvedic doctors, right, and Ayurvedic doctors in India are also trained in Western medicine, right, because of British colonialism. Yes, they have, they got it all.

Speaker 1:

They understand colonialism.

Speaker 2:

Less than a hundred years since they received independence from British colonialism. So there's a lot of rebuilding that's still going on. But the doctors then, they know the reductionist method of Western medical systems as well as the holistic system of Ayurveda. So what this framework of Ayurveda has built in is asking okay, if someone has this what's called lakshanas like a sign and symptom, or they have this level of energy during this time of day, we can label it as wholesome. If they have something different, we can label it as unwholesome. And there's big range, right, a lot of measurement of low, medium and high, based on your unique gauge from your whole lifetime, right? So for me, for example, that's going to look like okay, if I wake up in the morning and I'm like, oh, beaming out of bed, let's go, I'm ready to take on the day in our day. That is one sign of many that we're in good health, that we're wholesome, we're we're on the right path, we're doing something right. Ok, if I'm able to sleep throughout the night, I'm not. I'm not snoring heavily or X, x, y, z, uh, uh, insomnia, things like this. Another check Okay, living healthy, healthy check, right, if I'm hungry during optimal hours of the day, depending on where you're living and the season, sign of good health. If you're not experiencing any hunger. If you've ever been sick which I'm sure you have tis the season you might feel like I'm not hungry, I don't want to eat anything. I don't know. That is on purpose, because the body is shutting down hunger cues so it can work on breaking down whatever it needs to break down whatever pathology, disease, virus, whatever it is, or internal inflammation due to inputs and maybe a lack of proper outputs. So now the body is trying to create heat. Maybe it's a fever and Ayurveda there are many types of fever that is turning off, a signal to eat more, because if we take in more, that's going to take 80% or more of my energy to just the digestive process. So Ayurveda looks at hunger cues, looks at how you're sleeping, looks at your energy levels, looks at your cognitive focus, clarity and ability to express truth and ability to discern, so judgment, really, what truth is, and that's a whole big topic that we could go into in terms of, like people having misjudgment of what truth is. Um, so all of these are taken into account of what healthy is, if I have, if I have like a friend, like if I have, uh, experienced joy with people, that's a sign of good health, right. And then, of course, many other things, right, we can go into, like specific pathologies and wanting to eradicate, um.

Speaker 2:

So the last thing I'll say when it comes to ayurveda is there's a shloka, which is a line of sanskrit, uh terminology that goes dharma rata kama moksha nam arogyam mula mutamam rogas tasya para tara tre. So jiva tasya cha, which breaks down to the best and ultimate way to achieve the human life goals which we all, all humans, life goals. So the best and ultimate way to achieve these life goals, which are dharma, your duty, your the thing that you're here to do, artha to receive wealth, to receive the things really material, and kama to enjoy, to enjoy the fruits of your labor, to enjoy time with family, to receive a beautiful partner or whatever it is. And moksha to reach liberation, right. So liberation from all human duties, to liberate ourselves, to liberate others.

Speaker 2:

And this is then where yoga picks up, right, which is practicing moksha liberation, then where yoga picks up right, which is practicing moksha liberation, so the best and ultimate way to achieve these life goals is the complete absence of disease, and that which eradicates disease creates the best possible life, and that's Arivada. That's going to be what we understand as Arivada. So what that shloka is telling us is Ayurveda is trying to eradicate disease so that you can achieve all your life goals. It doesn't end at just. Disease is gone Now the harmartika mamocca.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the joy enjoying. Enjoying your life is not just being alive, but actually living and being able to just function well. That's what it sounds like to me Like enjoy food, enjoy activity, enjoy spending time with others, instead of it being feeling like a chore almost, or with a lot of resistance or resentment. I feel like.

Speaker 2:

Right, this is huge, that's a big piece, I would say. A lot of people get turned off to Ayurveda One because there's not enough properly trained Ayurvedic practitioners. I'll tell you that it's the wild, wild west, just like yoga and um appropriated. We're trying to make sure that that doesn't happen again, and I say we because I am working with, uh, some incredible doctors right now as a partner. Again, I'm not a doctor, but they are Um, and I'll get to what that means. To work with a health coach versus a dark doctor, how you would discern what's best for you um, but what I found is a there's not enough properly trained practitioners for ayurveda.

Speaker 2:

so people come into it and they're like what the f? I? I don't have all the pieces here yeah, flex, and so they get turned off to it because it seems like there's no end, because there really isn't if we're living in a body. But then the second piece is they get turned off because it's like oh, I can't have this or I have to be vegetarian, which is false, I have to do this and I'm not enjoying life anymore. And there's a hyper vigilance on diet, like fixation, or, and ultimately, if that's happening, then it's not the right system or it's not the right protocol for that person. Because if a practitioner, an Ayurvedic practitioner or doctor, is saying you have to do this, you have to do this, and it's creating intense levels of stress, then that's not okay.

Speaker 2:

It's not working. So what would? The practitioner is, again, not properly trained to be able to discern. Okay, we need to. We have to flow and find the right pathway for this person. If the person wants to be vegetarian, for example, I've worked with people who don't want to eat meat, but what I would love would be for them to eat meat, specifically to get their I'm going to avoid using the word dosha, for now, too many Sanskrit terms but to get their system, their nervous system as well as their tissues, built in a way that's going to calm them down and then create a little bit more stability. So, but if that choice to eat meat is going to create more stress, okay, we find another way.

Speaker 2:

Other people will come and say, hey, I don't, I'm turned off to Ayurveda because I'm not going to give up meat, I work out too much and I don't want to be vegetarian. I'm like well, great, they ate everything. If we talk about classical literature, they have documented the most wild things. Because it was done in a good way and I say in a good way because a part of the system because it's holism. It means if there's an animal or plant that is endangered, it can't be used, then you have to go to the, because it's a whole system and if we eradicate a part of the ecosystem, it's going to affect us. So you know, this misconception that we have to have this super dogmatic diet is false. It's also okay.

Speaker 2:

But we also. I'm sorry, I'll say one more thing.

Speaker 1:

No, no, go ahead.

Speaker 2:

We, we have a potentially strict regimen, especially if it's a high. It's like a frank disease, a really intense pathology. The person will probably be willing right to change their diet in a big way. But the idea is it's a framework, a certain period of time of which is going to get regulated, and then the idea is that you can eat whatever you want, whenever you want. Well, maybe not whenever you want, but you eat whatever you want because your body knows when, how much and how to prepare it.

Speaker 2:

It will crave the proper things, proper judgment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that and I think it's.

Speaker 1:

You bring up such a great point.

Speaker 1:

Number one the clarification that you don't have to be vegetarian if you don't want to, I think is huge, because it is an assumption that probably comes from a lot like grapevine type information, right.

Speaker 1:

And two, you bring up such a great point that I try to explain as well, which is sometimes is a temporary change in what you're eating to give your body the space to heal so that you can go back to eating everything you enjoy, and is is a small sacrifice, because food can be healing or it can add on and pile on to feeling unwell or creating disease, and we're asked to change how we're eating for a short amount of time. It might not feel short, right, like sometimes also, healing takes a while when you're trying to do it naturally. So by short I mean maybe a good six months, you know, or more, depending on how your body's responding in changing what you're eating so that your body has the space to heal and repair. But the ultimate goal is, if you want to keep doing that, great, but the ultimate goal is that you will go back to enjoying what you normally would and your body will be able to actually handle it and digest it, because the system has been repaired to go ahead and do that.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if you have like yep you know, yeah, um, and I think that that's a really big I. I didn't understand that at first and I realized how much it does work and how you don't miss a lot of the things from before. And something else you mentioned that was great was how your body then just knows and it tells you and that's often another part that's really missing where it's not even restrictive and you're not neglecting yourself from having specific things is that you actually don't genuinely even want it anymore. Your body's telling you how it feels when you do these things right.

Speaker 2:

Your body's telling you how it feels when you do these things right, yes, oh, amazing. And that piece is hugely correlated to the other part of the reason why and how I practice, which is the somatic inquiry. Right, yes, communicate what your body is saying to you via sensation inquiry right how to communicate what your body is saying to you via sensation.

Speaker 2:

So I'll I'll drop into that, because you you're highlighting a big point around. Okay, your body doesn't want it anymore. Your body's telling you something, and this can sound really esoteric to people like my body's talking to me, yeah, because it doesn't speak English. So what does it speak? Right, right, so it's speaking to us via sensation. It's speaking to us via signs and symptoms. It's speaking to us in a it could be this like an essence and nagging Right, so I'll get to that. I did want to just highlight something you said, with the vegetarianism kind of being heard through the grapevine mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Just so I can, I I I always want to be mindful of people who practice Ayurveda like in purity, because there are different types of Ayurvedic practices these days because of everything that's happened with colonialism but in I think it was like 600 BCE to all the way to 1200 CE I want to say this is when Buddhism was like flourishing in India.

Speaker 2:

So, during this Shastra period. I believe it's called the Rosh Shastra period. This is when vegetarianism was highly popularized because of Buddhism. So this era, which was super important, it led to extreme advances in different formulations, different herbs, different medical medicines, we could say, because they weren't using anything from an animal right. So that's where you get this non-harm Ahimsa idea, which is from the Buddhism era and, however, before that, for hundreds, thousands of years, they were consuming animals and after the Rasa Shastra period came back. So I just want to name that.

Speaker 2:

There's so much depth to Ayurveda and it understands and it's recorded because it's been tested and tested for generations and generations. What happens when the body is having meat, when it's been tested and tested for generations and generations. What happens when the body is having meat. When it's not having meat, what do we need to do to shift things around? So, like today, with things like different medical practices, even functional medicine, which I love, functional medicine I think it's awesome what they're doing. But you'll even hear functional medicine doctors say, like we just don't have enough information. We just don't have enough. It hasn't been put on, you know, for long enough. That's the difference. With our video, we got thousands, thousands and thousands of documented uh experiences, and india is is highly diverse, um, uh, and in terms of climate, you have every type of ecosystem there too. So that's just one thing to to note. Um, and so how do we with bodies not my body is not indian like I'm I'm, I'm half filipino, so I have southeast asian descent, so my body can assimilate a little easier than someone, say, from Norway, the kinds of foods that Ayurveda speaks to. But how? So then? How do I recognize my body? Or it's a Norwegian body Like? How do we understand what, what the body's communicating with us?

Speaker 2:

And this is where there was a slight disconnect for me, when I was very sick and I I needed to do these Ayurvedic protocols because I learned about it and I started to trust it. But it was so hard to get out of this pattern, this deeply set pattern of of ways of eating, sleeping, lifestyle. And I was told my doctor was like we just really need to remove the dairy, we need to remove overeating. That was the biggest piece for me. Overeating and I think a lot of people resonate with this it's that food coma feeling. I don't feel satisfied until I'm like that right, until I'm totally full, and this was the hardest thing to break for me.

Speaker 2:

And in Ayurveda, yes, there's meditation practices, yoga practices, but if that's not deeply ingrained into your, your lineage, or it's not the environment that you're in, it might not be the way for you. And so for me I was like, how do I stop overeating? And what I found was the language of somatic inquiry, the language of okay, how is my body speaking via sensations of expansion or contraction, right, when I feel contraction? That word right? That? That essence of tightening, that essence of, or heaviness, closing heat or cooling right? That, that essence of tightening, that essence of, or heaviness, closing heat or cooling right, like these descriptive qualities I could name easier.

Speaker 2:

And once I did that, I shifted out of shame and I shifted into curiosity, and that allowed me more space. If I have curiosity, there's a little bit more space. So the somatic inquiry piece is okay. If I'm not able to shift my diet, my lifestyle, for however portion of time, then there's something there that the body is trying to say it needs, it feels I'm going to use the word unsafe, potentially right. And the body's trying to find safety with the only way it knows how. How is that? What's the pattern that it's learned from just day-to-day lifestyle society to overeat.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you go eat something, you grab a snack.

Speaker 2:

Let's get a snack. Let's get a snack. Let's feel heavy. Let's a snack, let's get a snack. Let's get a snack. Let's feel heavy, let's not feel let's get a drink.

Speaker 2:

Right, I guess, get a drink. Let's even work out for some people. Right, let's have have a roll some tobacco, whatever it is, yeah, but if I have have created a neural pathway of, oh, the moment I feel tightness, constriction or closing my throat, or oh, my gosh, I'm overwhelmed, I have so many things to do, the bet that I, what I know, will create a sense of dissipation, yeah it's food, right.

Speaker 2:

so then now I cognitively get it. Ah, I learned somatic inquiry. Very cool, I cognitively get it. It's like 20% of the work, right, if that. So then how? How do we practice? I know it's not going to be when I'm stressed out and there's a full warm chocolate cake in front of me, like that's going to be an easy time, but instead what we do is we practice when we're outside of a challenging experience, just like you go to the gym, right. You go to the gym to, yes, a feel confident, right, because confidence is a huge thing to get strong or whatever. It is higher energy. But you're doing that so that you can experience that later on, right, it's a cumulative effect.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right, and that moment you're like ripping your your muscles, yeah, but you'll experience it maybe a month, two months down the line. So, with same thing, with somatic inquiry, what if I, just like I go to the gym, just like I go to do yoga, yoga practice, whatever it is I can sensationally experience what my body is saying, like right now, if you're listening and you're not driving and you close your eyes and you just tune into what the body is feeling. And when I say that, does it go anywhere? Specifically, do I feel a tightness somewhere? No, do I feel an expansiveness somewhere? And if it's hard to feel anything, that's okay too, because numbness is a sensation as well. Numbness is an extreme amount of sensation that the body and the mind aren't able to digest right now. So that's okay. If I feel numbness, can I also say oh okay, I see you, it's a lot right now. I'll come back.

Speaker 1:

Can I also say oh okay, I see you, it's a lot right now.

Speaker 2:

I'll come back. Or what if I open my eyes and I see a tree? What sensation do you have in relation to that tree? I look at this tree outside and I feel like an opening in my chest. I feel an energy shooting up the back of my neck up to the crown of my head, because I'm relating to something. If I shift and I see a family fighting, I'm just thinking about that and my throat feels closed. I feel a tightness in my chest. So I'm relating to these, what I'm seeing.

Speaker 2:

I'm relating to this oh, this is a big exercise I do with clients my pillow like what does it feel like to press the pillow against me? So, in practice, just like going to gym, just like tuning into the body, this is going to get stronger. And so when I am like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to have the whole chocolate cake right now and then a cup of coffee and then probably a croissant, I can like, did you? If you probably noticed, I started speaking a lot, but fast, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then with enough practice, in that moment I can say oh, whoa, things are moving really, really fast. What do I need to just slow down and feel. Oh, if I think about the cake, there's a tingling sensation in my inner thighs, but then there's also this like intense beat of my heart. So there's something here that's like wanting the cake.

Speaker 2:

What happens after I have the cake? Like if I can actually somatically experience that right, like I didn't, for example, see a family fighting, but when I just thought of it, my body experienced constriction. So what if I think about how I'm gonna feel after eating half the cake? If I think of that, I feel like sunken, I feel heavy. This. And if you notice, if I'm feeling sunken, heavy, that's the exact opposite of what was happening when I was trying to reach for it. Oh, my gosh, I need to have the cake. It's up here, right. So there's an upward regulation that's trying to find oh, ai just gave us fireworks. There's an upward regulation of energy. And what is life always trying to do? Find balance, find balance. Yeah, so the cake is going to depress me.

Speaker 1:

Yep, and then it's going to go so far down that you're going to have to have something else to bring you back up.

Speaker 2:

Let's have that coffee at four o'clock. Yep Right, and you're going up and down on this little pattern all day when we're not aware of what's happening Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I have you mentioned something really important that I want to bring back to and that was being numb and not being able to tap in. I've worked with clients who have experienced very traumatic events in their life and the way that they've been able to manage process, keep on living, has been through this association. This association and just the thought or the practice of trying to tune in, to get this information from the body, is a whole process on its own, because it's almost like they're re-triggering or triggering themselves just to try and build that connection, to then go on and learn everything that we just spoke about. So, as a somatic I forgot you said, as a somatic practitioner, right, Like, how do you guide somebody whose main form of finding safety is this association and the importance of this whole experience of listening to your body and catching and slowing down and all that? How do you guide them through that initial, I guess, piece of the journey where it can be very difficult?

Speaker 2:

So good. Thank you. Yeah, this is huge. This is huge. The first place to start is definitely the education piece around there's nothing wrong with you, mm, hmm, there's nothing wrong with you, and the body is actually doing a really beautiful, loving job and saying, hey, I love you so much that we are not going to feel this right now. We don't have the capacity, and that's okay. So, first, just bringing in a little bit of grace and hopefully a little bit of space to give the body some love, that, hey, I really appreciate you for allowing me to disassociate because this wasn't safe for me.

Speaker 2:

And there are a couple things that we can do to start to expand that capacity, to expand that capacity. One is and I want to be very careful with using this term because it can be a bit triggering for people so just naming that is pleasure and pleasure can mean so many things. But expanding our capacity for pleasure and pleasure could mean just where I'm feeling like baseline, like I'm feeling not good, not bad, but just standard. You know, I feel standard right now and that can be nice because it's not an intensely upregulated or downregulated experience. So there's one piece of okay grace. Second piece, okay Curiosity of how can I expand pleasure? And we'll get to that, and and and the last piece is okay if I'm feeling numb, and the last piece is okay if I'm feeling numb, then what can I feel? Can I bring in another regulator, like an auto regulator, which is something that's not alive or doesn't have a consciousness like another human, another, a tree would be a living thing, living being. So it wouldn't be a tree, but it could be a pillow.

Speaker 2:

A pillow is, we call it an auto regulator. Food is an auto regulator. A warm cup of tea is an auto regulator. So what if I'm feeling completely numb in my chest? And I called on my chest, okay. Well, what is it like if I press a pillow against my chest or my hand, a warm hand against my chest? Do I feel that? Do I just feel that sensation? Oh, I feel warmth. Oh, oh well, you just felt something, right? So now it's no longer numb, it's no longer numb.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're just bringing in other sensations, other supports, right, and we also can move on, right If I say, okay, I'm not feeling the chest, okay, well, do you feel your toes? What if you press your feet into the ground and then we come back? That's called pendulation, we come back to the other part of the body. Does it have any relationship to the fact that your feet feel nice and grounded? Okay, so? So there's those three pieces using grace, using um, expanding capacity for pleasure and also an auto regulator.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I can speak to the capacity for pleasure and also an auto regulator?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I can speak to the capacity for pleasure if, but if you have any other questions so far, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for explaining that, because I think that there's a lot of us I feel like are in that space of let me just numb out, I don't want to feel, because it allows you to keep moving forward instead of being stuck there. And I also know how important it is to feel and how much our body connect, uh communicates, with us in that way. So trying to grow the capacity and find safety in that, I think, is really important. So, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Go ahead, Sorry yeah no, this is great.

Speaker 2:

I I want to be really clear that you know that piece around the grace. There's also the recognition that numbness can be an idea that we're oh, I'm not able to feel there's something wrong. But numbness is a feeling. It's full, it's so much feeling, it's so much charge. You feel numb, like that's a feeling. So take a moment to notice what numbness feels like. What's a lack of sensation, feel like to you, right, that result of too much charge. How am I experiencing that it's going to be different from someone else?

Speaker 2:

but it's essentially overwhelm that needs a break. It's just overwhelm that needs a break. So if I want to get really curious about the numbness, for example and usually I give a sheet of like possible sensations to the people I'm working with to just start to color the vocabulary but is it an inability to feel sensation at all, like I'm not able to feel any sensation even if I rub my hand is it not noticing that the parts of my body exists? If you say like, hey, what does your right pinky toe feel? I don't know, I don't, I can't experience it in this space.

Speaker 2:

Okay, not noticing my body parts, not feeling parts of my body. There's like a vacancy, like a void feeling, maybe. Or like not noticing a temperature, not noticing warm or cold, right? Or is it spacing out, like I'm feeling out of body, I feel like I'm not here, I feel like I'm almost just in another dimension, right? So there's so many different layers and colors to feeling numb as well. So if we can get curious about the numbness, then it creates a little bit more curiosity, care and again, that grace.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I love that explanation. Thank you so much. I know that you mentioned that you were very sick and unwell and I know that it's you know health struggles that you've gone through that I think are very relatable. I think a lot of people are going through a similar experience, so can you please share with us what was it that you were dealing with and how has this like Ayurveda and somatic healing has helped you heal your body and how you are now?

Speaker 2:

Of course, okay, I'm happy to share, and in this share I'll be able to touch on how expanding my capacity for pleasure in the right time was a part of the healing.

Speaker 1:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

So for me, I was born with with eczema. I was born colic I, so my digestive system was out of whack. Just born as a baby and growing up the eczema kind of weaved in and out. But once I got to college, I you have the stress. I was in a field that I didn't really want to be in. I wanted to be in the arts, but I went into business and I'm grateful for it for it. But I was, I was hiding, I was, I was definitely hiding.

Speaker 2:

My eczema came back in a big way. I was working in corporate. I worked at Hulu in New York After working at an agency for two years. I was working with, like Estee Lauder, mac, like these big brands and you know you would think things are going pretty well, but behind the desk I'm like hiding in my scarf. I'm hiding that my, my neck, my throat area is just inflamed red flaky. And it finally got to a point where I was like I need to make a huge shift.

Speaker 2:

I started practicing yoga, specifically in the hot room, and I started to learn how I was talking to myself. So I'm just seeding some of the journey. I was learning about how I talk to myself through this physical and mental practice right, this practice of liberating the self in yoga, and I found traditional Chinese medicine. It helped the eczema for a bit of time, but there was a plateau right and even in the plateau he said I think we should stop for a little bit and then come back. There was a piece that he said the TCM doctor which was like oh, stop having chicken. The chicken is is too much energy and is. If you look at the chicken, it's always, it's always up here and you're always up here and scratching like, oh, oh, that's interesting quality, the quality of my food, right, it has an energy. And I was like this is something. So there was something there that I wanted to scratch, scratch. There's like something like, oh, itching for. And so I wanted to keep learning more. Okay, let me learn more. I started diving into more diet things, like I did whole 30. It kind of helped, but not really.

Speaker 2:

And I went searching and things got better because the seasons changed. Okay, so for me in the summertime it would be really bad. Other people who have eczema get gets really bad in the winter. Why? Because there are different qualities of eczema. There's different types of eczema and in Ayurveda we understand them through the elements. So hot, cold also where it's trapped in the body. And so for me, okay, things are kind of getting better. I'm just going to just do whatever I want. And I traveled, I traveled. Things got way worse. Things got way worse when I traveled. And so, bringing I traveled, things got way worse, things got way worse when I traveled.

Speaker 2:

And so, bringing all of this together, I finally found my Ayurvedic doctor, who I work with now. I studied under her intensely for almost two years now and now I'm working with her as a swastika, a health coach, and she's the doctor. Yeah and uh, when I found her, I I was just a wreck, I'm talking head to toe looked like a tomato, I could barely shower. Um I I hadn't had a period for for five years. I had a Monterey loss of period for five years, so my hormones lately shot, um PCOS and um IBS, uh, and I didn't really recognize how bad it was at the time. I was just trying to survive, Right, I was really just trying to survive.

Speaker 2:

And that comes back to this like grasping, itching for the right answers. Trying this food, trying this. Oh, you said this is a superfood. I should be having that superfood on top of this superfood. Let me blend it all together, all of this creating a total soup like, and also hard, cold soup inside the body.

Speaker 2:

That is now making the eczema worse and for most people um, actually, no, all ecz cases. The most important thing to do is simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify, because what's happening is a chemical response in the body leaking out into the blood and it's causing all of this oozy inflammation. For me it was oozy, some people it's flaky, it depends, but it's a, it's the improper combination that's creating like an acidic effect. It's creating toxic waste basically combustion of toxic waste and the liver is extremely taxed. So now the skin is going to take over and try to push out those, the toxic waste, out of the skin. So I needed to simplify after years of grasping, trying to find the answers, trying this and that but not sticking with anything and being up here and then trying to regulate back again by dissipating, by overeating.

Speaker 2:

And then also there's eating disorders from wanting to get all of this out. So there's a total loss of finding regularity. So I'm working with this doctor. She's like we need to simplify. We're going to have rice soup. That's all you're going to have for like two weeks. Make it three and the simplification.

Speaker 2:

At first it was easy because I'm sick, right, I'll do whatever you say. And then, as things start to get better, the cravings happened and when the itch is really intense, I felt like an alien. I felt like I couldn't see anyone and what my body really wanted to do was scream because it was in so much pain. I just wanted to scream. But if I get in front of someone I have to like act fine and okay. What is that?

Speaker 2:

People can call it people pleasing often discusses people pleasing. In trauma therapy it's understood as fawning. So what happens there in the body, what's been happening in my body for lifetimes maybe you know ancestors as well is fawning, bracing. This is a type of constriction. It's a somatic sensation. You can experience bracing in the body. That bracing is then bringing another part of me forward to perform Right, and that performative aspect is based on whatever I think you want or need, so I can try to control the situation. So it's a level of control. While a part of me is trying to control, I'm also controlling myself, bracing. If you hold a fist however long you can hold a fist like I mean, imagine your body trying to hold on for that long it will eventually let go, and that let go was with copious amounts of food or blowing up on someone right, that's what fawning people, pleasing, bracing does. And so I noticed, with the food getting simple, way more simple, and I can't use it as my way to regulate.

Speaker 2:

I start to notice. I just want to scream. I don't want to see anyone, because if I see anyone I'm going to be tempted to fawn, and things are not okay right now. So what I did, what I started to practice, was every time I got out of the shower whether it was because I physically needed to, whether it was because I I physically needed to or it was regulating my nervous system both were happening at the same time but I got out and I screamed, I thrashed, I would I cause I couldn't scratch right, I would get, I'd have to cut my nails. So I'd be slapping my body and I'd be screaming and I'd be crying and I'd be moving forward and back until I could let go.

Speaker 2:

And what? What I do now in practice with people who aren't experiencing eczema, is there probably is a big cathartic release that wants to happen. But what we need to do is, when we do release in a cathartic way, is we have to couple it with doing it slowly, because the body doesn't recognize if it's in an actual traumatic situation, right, or if it's practicing. So if I'm like thrashing, thrashing, thrashing, then what I'm going to do is breathe deeply and do the exact same motion way slower with breath and notice how the body responds to a different uh pace right like when I went like this much slower, I noticed my hips just relaxed.

Speaker 2:

But when I'm doing this, everything is tense, everything, yeah, co-creating. There's a co-creation that happens with listening to the body. So this was my experience for about two years eating way simpler, doing it, doing cleanses, ayurvedic cleanses, and tapping in somatically, slowing down somatically. And then I of course, dove into some relational somatic trauma healing and and and deeper studies with Ayurveda, because it worked.

Speaker 1:

It worked. Yeah, where are you now? How did it work for you? How's your health now?

Speaker 2:

My health is. I feel healthier than I've literally ever felt in my life. People would say, veronica, you've always been thin, I don't know what you're talking about. People would say, veronica, you've always been thin, I don't know what you're talking about. But my body for everyone. Everyone has their own unique needs. My body inherently looks thin. I have a vata prakriti. If anyone knows what vata means, it's predominantly air and space. In Ayurveda, my constitution has high levels of vata and also pitta, which is fire and water. But we have all of the elements. But because just predominantly, I have more of the thin features, that doesn't mean that I can't have the same exact pathology that someone with a larger build built, mm. Hmm. So I was having chronic eczema because I was eating way too much. I was having PCOS amonorrhea because I was too big for my physical body's structure to hold. If I had a different structure, I might've been totally fine.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, and this is such a good point on. Body size doesn't equal health, and I think that a lot of people who are on the thinner ends because we live in a society that's so physical and like your physical appearance and black and white you might be suffering and struggling so much if you're in a thinner frame and not even realize it or maybe not take it seriously because, oh, you're good, you're skinny. What are you worried about? It can't be, and you might be struggling. So take whatever your body's telling you seriously. If you don't have a period, if they are irregular, if you notice something funky going on with your skin, if you see that something odd is going on with your hair, right, or your energy levels, those are all signs that your body's giving you that something's off and it doesn't mean that it's because your body size determines how your overall health is Right.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for putting that in there. This is huge. Yeah, such a misconception, such a misconception. So thank you for naming that. The last thing I'll say around this is what you just mentioned as notice, if something, feels off for you if you're feeling energy levels I have. This rash is new. If you go to the doctor, they take your labs. They're going to say you're fine, Okay, bye.

Speaker 2:

Like take some antihistamine, but you are already attuned to the fact that I'm I'm straying off the path. And what Ayurveda does as well as somatic inquiry is because somatic inquiry and Ayurveda are inherently tied. What they both do together is they say, ah, you're veering off the path, you're. If you keep going down here, we know exactly what's gonna happen. What's gonna happen for me? I know if I'm starting to feel heavy in the mornings or if I start to feel too mucousy, if I go down the same path, I will get chronic eczema again in a year down the line.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so good that you mentioned that, right, because things add up Health just snowballs in whatever direction, it compounds in whatever direction and it's up to us as an individual person to recognize those signs and then decide to take some action on them. I'm glad you brought up the blood work as well, because sometimes you're not feeling okay and your blood work is like oh, everything is within range. First of all, the ranges are all over the place. The ranges are averages of Americans which are inherently very, very, very sick. So, trust yourself, keep searching, and I'll give a personal example with that, because my my like little disease factor where I have to be very careful is my blood sugar, because diabetes runs in my family.

Speaker 1:

I was on the high end of prediabetes when I wasn't even 30 years old and my body's number one sign is that I start to get dark patches around my neck area and I was at the thinnest I had ever been and I had two dark patches on my neck Right and I noticed, I took a look at how I was eating, they completely went away and then they came back. I sent a photo to my doctor and she's like oh, that's nothing, it can't be that. Like it, it looks like an eczema patch. It doesn't follow the regular patterns of NA, right, which is like discoloration around the neck and skin folds and things like that when your body's struggling metabolically. And I was like, okay, whatever you say, like I trusted myself more, I was like it could be. But I really do believe that is my body struggling to digest sugar again. And I took a look at what I was eating Again, those signs I was veering off the path.

Speaker 1:

I put myself back on the path. What happens? The two dark patches disappear without any like. It was definitely not eczema, it was my body struggling with that. So if I don't put myself back on the path, hello diabetes a few years from now. Right, because again it happens. Slowly, it snowballs. It is not a light switch. The body does not work like a light switch. There are these signs and symptoms that start to appear along the way. So if you know in your gut, if you are like this is not me, this is new, I don't get curious. Like Veronica said, go into that curiosity space because it will allow you to explore more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, super powerful, thank you, Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story, huge I, I, I can't honor enough what you're doing to spread this out to people, that we don't have to wait until we have diagnoses. We, we, we really don't. It's finally coming out now with the longevity movement of this, like you know, working on everything before you get diagnosed so that you can live long and vital, which is great. Speaking to your body, because we all have these pat and grain pathways, but it's up to us to know what our unique intuitive hits are via sensations, and they all will tie back to something that is, yes, very metabolic it's due to the digestive system being taxed or not, and energy levels. So it's just how, how can you find the gateway to creating space to learn about what your body's trying to tell you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, last question, and then we'll wrap up, because I think that this is a very important topic to discuss, especially now during the holiday season and that is something that you mentioned before too which is people pleasing and when we do start to take action in this different way, when we're trying to listen to ourselves, choose different kinds of foods or activity and lifestyle, and then you re-engage with loved ones who probably are not aware, are not in the place of the journey where you are right, everybody has their own journey, everybody makes their own decisions, but you are choosing this path, are choosing this path, and then there are comments. Then there is maybe some sort of peer pressure or this guilt of not doing what you used to do before or what your family is doing, and they keep inviting you in. How do you deal with that?

Speaker 2:

the big ones. So good, uh, yes, this is a big time uh for for fawning, for people pleasing and for the potential for what we call uh in relational trauma, healing, rupture and repair. So again, coming back to similarly, what we would do with navigating numbness is first, like the education around. Okay, if I am making a change towards people who have known me for a long time, inherently there will be a kind of rupture. It's built. If I am having a discourse with someone, inherently there is going to be an elevated energy right, it might be constricting. It might be up here Because we could be trying to find more information. Ooh, I'm curious, I'm leaning in, or it could be like whoa, I'm defending myself, but I got to stay strong in it. So there's going to be some kind of activation inherent, just overarching. You're not doing it right unless there's some kind of rupture, honestly. So there's a little bit of grace and I say with a smile to hopefully bring in a little bit of lightness to it because people just kind of anticipate. Bring in a little bit of lightness to it because people just kind of anticipate. But I also recognize like this can be really triggering for people and it's really hard. So that's very fair. Okay, so inevitably there's going to be some kind of rupture.

Speaker 2:

What can I do to be a part of the repair process? The biggest thing that I can say for any sort of change, relational that just gives you the time to say, okay, how important is it for me to actually be on this path. Can I set side a time aside to actually do a somatic practice or call someone that you feel trusting in, like trustworthy in, and you can say, hey, I want to like just practice. Because if I practice, if I prep my body, my nervous system will come into that conversation. Whether that's, hey, I'm not eating the cake today, or I already ate, so I'm not, I'm not coming in. Whatever that is, my body is prepared for that conversation and I know, oh, when I say it, my throat tightens up. So what do I need to do? Maybe I put my hand on my chest or like near my throat. So preparation is so key.

Speaker 2:

And another part of that preparation is that again, expanding the capacity for pleasure that I didn't really talk about. But in these moments I can say, okay, well, if I'm feeling like activated, I'm angry, I'm scared that I'm going to be casted out of this group, right, my family. This is deeply rooted in our ancestry where, like we'll be, you'll be casted out of of the tribe if you're not following whatever. So this is. Or the witch hunt always talking about the witch hunt, this is a real thing. If you're you're a kitchen witch, you're helping people with herbs and plants, like okay, now you're getting called out as a witch and you can lose your life. This is real. That really happened.

Speaker 2:

And so this is deeply ingrained, because epigenetics is a real thing and it gets passed down. So, if I can just recognize, okay, I'm feeling tense and afraid because I don't want to be casted out. Well, what else do I feel? Do I feel my feet on the ground?

Speaker 2:

Right, I need to bring with me, like someone that I can hold my, like my arm, literally. Now you have a co-regulator, someone, another body that's helping me regulate. Or do I need a cup of warm tea, like why do you think, when people come to parties, everyone has to have a drink? Because they're all trying to regulate, everyone's freaking has social anxiety and so they need something right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Hold the cup of the mug near to your heart and feel the warmth. So that's expanding. Can I expand my capacity for pleasure? If I'm expanding my capacity for pleasure, that means I'm going to attune back to that feeling of warmth. And then when I disassociate again and I recognize, oh, I'm disassociating, can I come back to that pleasure?

Speaker 2:

It's just like meditation. It's just like, you know, focus. Can I come back to something I'm feeling pleasure in? And it's not going to be easy, because every time we leave we disassociate, and now I'm thinking this cup of tea doesn't matter. What's actually happening is that, like I have whatever I don't know, no money in my bank account. This is a big one talking about finances.

Speaker 2:

So, like all of these dysregulating things. That's a sign oh, I've reached my capacity for pleasure, because now my body, my nervous system, needs to shift into something else. So the practice to expand, that is to okay, try it again. Do it Now, we'll do it tomorrow. Can I lay in the bathtub, and how long can I lay in the bathtub before needing to go on my phone? You found your capacity for pleasure.

Speaker 1:

I love that we need to have a whole nother talk just on pleasure, because I think it's a different perspective that I don't think I've heard about it before in that way. Yeah, for sure, bern. Thank you so much for being here, for sharing all this wonderful, deep knowledge. I hope that everybody who is listening feel, seen, has learned something new, has gotten new, like some, like at least one new thing to practice and to notice at least that little spark of curiosity is a really good one.

Speaker 2:

So, veronica, page G, and in there I have a link tree that has like my website and the offerings that are currently going on. The next offering will be a group journey for 11 weeks. It's going to be all things Ayurveda and somatic inquiry, with the option to just do the cleansing portion. So if you come in full 11 weeks, you go in, we have a cleanse, or you can just do the cleanse, which is going to be four weeks, and hop in at the middle. So that's going to be the next offering.

Speaker 2:

And I love that and what In time for spring.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yes, yes, yes, and I'll have all this information down at the show notes so it's super easy for you to just go and find her. Thanks again for sharing and all of your beautiful knowledge. I am so excited that you joined us today and I hope to have you back on. Thank you so much, naomi Bye.